Marketing Aside, EA or 2K? Which Game Delivers A Next Gen Football Experience?

I couldnt have said it better myself, and I agree 100%. It has to stop and the madden fans have to make a stand, but so many of them are mindless children that it will never happen.

mad you are right every year( the past 2) i have been suckerd into buying the ea sports football games. i have not got ncaa and will pass on madden because i have all pro. i don't hate ea i just want them to earn my 65 bucks. they should have been focusing on game play. it should not be a selling point and they can get rid of the damn radio announcer. hopefully the league will wise up and not give the rights anymore The nba was smart and 2k smashes live every year.

This is straight from the pages of a 2k sports dickrider that really wants for all pro to even pale in comparison with EA but knows deep down in his soul that if u break it down to any way shape or form EA has the better game so u complain about minor things like on field refs , and nets behind the field goal who cares , people play football games to play football this is the most biased opinion i ever heard All Pro sucks no depth in the game no balance in the game , I like that there was an alternative but NCAA is much better choice and Madden will be when it comes out , Im just speaking the truth.

i really fell sorry for all you madden lovers.EA has been screwing you for years and you still follow them.what happened to choice.EA ran to the NFL with there tail between there legs crying how 2K5 is better then madden.EA buys all the rights and suddenly its a one horse town.2K8 is a better game then madden.I enjoy makeing your on team.

You ask me both games are weak. I loved the Madden series, but since they made the jump to this "Next-Gen" it has been nothing but "Half-Assed." I had high hope for All Pro, but the game needed more meat. I'm getting tired of wasting 60 dollars on sports games.

Yup, since the new gen football games have been dropping its just not the same. The controls are played wit, gameplay just never seems to feel right and the overall experience isnt anywhere near as fulfilling as on the ps2 or even xbox. Football is one of the only professional sports that seems to have this prob as other sports (soccer, basketball, baseball, tenis, even golf) have seemed to embraced the new gen and give the consumer a more fulfilling experience.

Madden is for those types of people who want what everybody else has ...it's typical of most Americans.... I'm not excluded from the group..But it seems as if it is now ok to have a Sheep-like mentality... It's the very thing that drives everything here in the US... whether it be products like Blu-ray vs HD-dvd, 360 vs PS3.. even politics everybody wants to pick the winner. Just so they can look less like a loser in the end we all should choose based on what provides the best gaming experience for the individual. Without a doubt Madden is trash on Nex-Gen the one thing that bothers me more than no refs or net is the solos act in the booth. What game let alone NFL game has only one guy doing the play by play. Not to mention that one guy isn't the guy who the game is named after... why bother calling it Madden.. just call it The Only NFL Out

In response to Hitta904.... are you serious?
You're probably the type of dude who would get kidnapped, raped in the ass, and deny it ever happened. Hell, even worse, you would probably enjoy the whole experience. That's my juxtoposation of madden fans. Yes i've played Madden 06 on Xbox (no choice for football); I've played Madden 07 on Xbox360 (no choice). Well it's a new year and I'm playing All-Pro Football 2K8! You know EA were some scared chumps when they scored not only the NFL license, but immediately ran out and bought the COLLEGE and ARENA football licenses as well. That in my opinion is worse than Microsoft putting internet explorer with every copy of windows. Why hasn't the U.S. Government knocked on their door for monopolizing practices?? EA is pure crap and i will not be buying their football products for a long time hopefully... It's laughable but NFL 2k5 STILL has better gameplay and dare i say GRAPHICS AND ANIMATIONS than the entire madden series. I love this article!

All-pro football is such an average game compared to Madden. Have you TRIED playing All-Pro Football? The player control is soooo loose. What's the point in controlling the player on defense or offense, when a slight push of the joystick sends the player in a different direction then what you are trying to do? Madden sells because of the gameplay and control. The player control aren't "Loose" like they are in All-Pro Football where you don't have total control in the direction or action that you are trying to accomplish.

To the people that say "Madden is xxx", do you play RPG's like Final Fantasy because of the name? If you stripped Final Fantasy of the title and notable character names, would you still buy it because of the great gameplay? Don't come here and tell me that All-Pro Football 'is better then Madden' when you haven't even played the new Madden yet.

Go play Madden 07 and then go play All-Pro Football and you can tell the difference in trying to control the players. All-Pro Football, trying to control the player as fluidly as in Madden is like trying to control a drive a car without a steering wheel. I have played All-Pro Football and compared to Madden '07, it's not that good due to very, very loose player mechanics. Fix that and I would've enjoyed the game alot more.

Chris,

Great point, the commentary is lacking, and it would be nice for fans of Madden to be able to turn on the old guy for a few "booms" during the game.

Mad-

(To John)

I DO think you are Madden and you must be trying to save face. Madden has been a gaming atrocity the past 2 seasons on the newer consoles. I think you can't control your APF characters because the physics engine is much more realistic than maddens. Players cannot go from a full on sprint and make 90 degree turns with ease.. Try it yourself. Exit your cave and try to run as fast as you can and turn 90 degrees without shredding your knee or rupturing your achilles. Let me know how that works out for u.... Enjoy your 60 dollar roster update on August 14th!

Ok, I will. When you realize that Madden is the MOST popular football series for the past decade, you tell me why people continue to support their title, despite all the flaws. You tell me why even the NFL players play the most current Madden football. Even kids in elementary school will play the new Madden. Physics engine? You got to be kidding me. Try turning 90 degrees in that game and you will run an awkward circle that makes you miss the entire play. Don't give me that "It's realistic" argument. You sure you are playing the same game? Or are you playing the old NFL 2K series? Even the old NFL 2k series had better control the All-Pro Football. It's not my fault that people would rather rent/purchase NCAA+Madden>All-Pro.

The only reason you complain that Madden isn't "Innovating" is because YOU expect every Madden to be "Game-Breaking". Are all the NBA 2k "Innovating" or are they just an improvement over the previous year's version? NBA Live sucks ass, I stop playing that when I found NBA 2k to be superior to the Live series.

People like to hate the popular brand because they feel like they deserve more for their money. Hey, nobody is FORCING you to go out and buy Madden. Nobody is FORCING you to play Madden.

If Madden dropped their price to $30.00 USD, I swear you people would then complain that for $30.00, you should get a double disc that includes training camp footage. In fact, the way to solve you being so cheap is to go buy Madden from like 3 years ago, I hear they go for like $4.99 at the local gamestore.

Don't like the new Madden? Then don't buy it, don't play it and get on with your life purchasing other games that will keep you happy. Ain't nobody forcing you to go out and buy Madden. Guess you all fall to peer pressure and feel you HAVE to buy Madden.

GG, you fail.

John said: "When you realize that Madden is the MOST popular football series for the past decade, you tell me why people continue to support their title, despite all the flaws."

Because they have no choice and have not had a choice since 2K5. Even then, Madden has been the de facto football game for years. Every other competitor up until the 2K guys has been hit and miss. Either they came, and faded away. Or they came and didn't make as many improvements and strides as the 2K series. NFL2K5 is hands down the best football game in my opinion. APF2k8 IMPROVED that gameplay. Considering the conditions, I'm surprised they were able to put out a title. But they did.

"You tell me why even the NFL players play the most current Madden football. Even kids in elementary school will play the new Madden. Physics engine? You got to be kidding me."

Because like all fans of a title, they are loyal to the game they grew up on AND they play the game that most of their friends continue to play. Kids in elementary school will play what their friend is playing and more than likely, EA, through best of the business marketing, makes sure that your kid will have Madden and EA Sports ringing in his head and his mom's head as well. You have to be kidding me if you think kids buy a game because of quality. My kids ask me to buy games that are terrible, but theirs something on the box that they are familiar with and, therefore, trust. John Madden is a face EVERY kid that would want a football game knows. It's that simple. Why do you think EA pays him a grip for doing NOTHING! Nothing at all.

And as far as controls go, APF controls are too loose for you, but for many people, Madden's controls are too sluggish. That's been the VC style. Give the player the control. If you're spazzin' out, the game will show it. Calm down. Sounds like you are trying to play Madden when the game is clearly and rightfully NOT Madden.

You are right, it's very cool to hate the leader and cheer the underdog. There are probably a lot of people like that. But don't let that interfere with the fact that that the 2K series, has garnered more and more praise for it on field gameplay than Madden for each iteration. VC does not have the deep pocket to compete with EA on the marketing or the budgeting level. They can not make more commercials, buy more shelf space, or put 200 people to work on the 2K series. Even with that, they can put out a game that can make a REAL pocket or, up until this year, have more realistic gang tackling that the 1000 lb gorilla. Look at the great strides EA has done with Madden this year in gameplay and tell me how the fact that 2K has done most of that stuff since 2K4 had not pressured them into it. That's saying something. If you can't respect the accomplishments that game makes in spite of everything it's up against, then you truly ARE an employee of Electronic Arts. For that matter, if you can't acknowledge that having 2K out there pushing EA is a GOOD thing, then something is truly wrong with you. No offense, but I just want a good game. And competition makes both games good. APF will strive to add back in value features like franchise. That I'm sure of. They've shown that they will listen to the community. I can't say the same for EA, but things are looking up.

Ok, I wasn't arguing that competition was bad. It's the fact that everyone wants to point out the flaws in Madden and praise All-Pro Football like it's the 2nd coming of the greatest game in the world. Honestly, nobody is forcing you to choose what you play. You play what you want and the vast majority of the population would rather play Madden > All-Pro Football. It's as simple as that.

When NFL 2k was out, everyone bought into having two competing football brand on the market, but in the end Madden still reined out on top for a reason.

Every new Madden is a slight improvement upon the previous year, and the current trend that EA has been doing as of late is to have one Madden come out with new features that were not in the previous version and the next year's Madden would use the same features, slight tweaks in gameplay and addition/subtraction of features. NBA 2k doesn't throw out their entire game mechanics every year they produce a new NBA 2k. They follow the same trend if you follow it close enough. They will give you a new concept and based upon feedback will adjust and add/remove certain features for the next year's version.

All-Pro Football will follow this same trend. They will tweak their game based upon reviews and will give you the same game but with a few adjustment, but nothing completely new, which is apparently what everyone is expecting Madden to give you every year.

Apple Ipod anyone?

John said: "Ok, I wasn't arguing that competition was bad. It's the fact that everyone wants to point out the flaws in Madden and praise All-Pro Football like it's the 2nd coming of the greatest game in the world."

No, that's your interpretation of praise given to some other title not made by EA. If you read EVERY comment about 2k, you'd realize there were just as many imperfections as Madden. You just seemed to focus on the comments that pointed out 2k's good points in comparison to Madden. You sound like you're bitter that 2K gets any praise.



John said: "Honestly, nobody is forcing you to choose what you play. You play what you want and the vast majority of the population would rather play Madden... It's as simple as that."



John said: First, yes, you ARE forced to play Madden. Because for the last 2 years, if you wanted to play a sim NFL football title, OR an sim college football title, OR a sim Arena football title, you HAD to play a title from EA. There was no way around it. And it's not a fact of "just don't buy it". If you liked to swim and God forced you to pay for the water, guess what you're going to have to do... And it wasn't as if Madden was the only choice just because it was better either. They chickened out and bought their way to that position instead of earning it completely. They didn't take out 2K with quality. They did it with money. The sad fact of the matter is that when people actually gave the 2K game a real chance, they LIKED it. That scared the crap out of EA. EA panicked and you have what you have today. And if you think that was a good thing to do for everyone and NOT JUST EA, then you HAVE to work for EA. I'm sorry. There's no way you can spin that deal into something positive for the consumer or the fan.

And if you don't think EA worries about the football team at VC, here's a quick read for you: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php...


John said: "When NFL 2k was out, everyone bought into having two competing football brand on the market, but in the end Madden still reined out on top for a reason."

Yeah! That reason was that people knew and trusted the title, AND it was still a good game. So why would they change? Why would they take $50 and risk buying a turd? For that matter, why take $50 and buy another game when they already had all they needed. Don't even try to make it sound like Madden was that much better. Yeah, it can be argued that Madden was better. But not by a factor of 10 to 1? Not on your life. Coke isn't THAT much better than Pepsi.


John said: "Every new Madden is a slight improvement upon the previous year, and the current trend that EA has been doing as of late is to have one Madden come out with new features that were not in the previous version and the next year's Madden would use the same features, slight tweaks in gameplay and addition/subtraction of features. NBA 2k doesn't throw out their entire game mechanics every year they produce a new NBA 2k. They follow the same trend if you follow it close enough. They will give you a new concept and based upon feedback will adjust and add/remove certain features for the next year's version."

The key word is "SLIGHT" improvement and that's been the problem in many people's eyes. That was fine when the title was solid. But when they went "next-gen", they broke the gameplay and yanked out a lot of features. Must be the next-gen systems because APF had to strip features too. But from all accounts, they improved their gameplay. Now that EA ise spoon-feeding those features back into the game, you're going to paint it as progress? I see it as repair. I will continue to get the XBox/PS2 and/or PSP version over the current gen versions because those versions were that much better. Forget 2K versus Madden! How about Madden old gen versus Madden current gen? You don't think something is wrong with that? For that matter, don't you think the features you get in Head Coach SHOULD have been in Madden? I would bet they would have been if VC was still able to use the NFL properties... It seems to me that we differ in that I buy and like BOTH games... Traditionally. My problems with Madden today have nothing to do with 2K. It has only to do with Madden now versus what Madden should be today. Simple put, it should be better than the old gen version in EVERY way. Not just graphics.

John said: "All-Pro Football will follow this same trend. They will tweak their game based upon reviews and will give you the same game but with a few adjustment, but nothing completely new, which is apparently what everyone is expecting Madden to give you every year."

Outside of moving to new console, VC has never done that with their games. Go to any unaffiliated sports video gaming forum and try to make that one fly... Unless of course you only go to the Madden boards. Of course, they've always attempted to address issues brought up in reviews. But they seem to comb every forum - they say as much in their interviews at least. And they seemed to look at all of their competitors. Then they try new things or twists on old things such as First person/VIP/Crib/Weekly prep. Are you kidding?

I don't know if my reply will make it since it's been a few hours since I wrote. If not, then I just want to make it a shorter reply.

1. Yes, you are forced to buy Madden if you want to play an NFL sim game. People aren't going to just drop a hobby.

2. No one is praising APF as if it's the second coming. They are just glad that a good game is coming back. I think this is an over-reaction.

3. Based on history, VC will probably give more that just slight improvements. They've been lauded for doing much more than that traditionally.

Dear John,
You really dont get it do you? at this point the only and biggest reason madden is still selling is because football and the NFL are the most popular sports in the USA. Madden is the most recognizable personality in sports gaming. If you take away Madden, and the NFL license, what would you be left with....
would you pay 65 dollars for problematic gameplay,and boring presentation. Madden was fun back in the days when it actually improved year to year, and back then you had gameday franchise, Fever, and 2k, the had no choise but to be good, you have to admit that much. Every body had a preference, and most important a choice, so it was ok to overlook flaws. All the criticism madden has now is all their fault. Think about it they have the only true NFL game, Which means every little thing is gonna get looked at, and the motto is if its in the game it's in the game, so why is so much always missing. I play APF2k8 I only play it online because thats the only way to enjoys it, with the leagues and ranked games. If I didnt have the internet, I'd rent it. The game is the most realistic football game so far, maybe too realistic at times with the movements, because u do loose controle of your player,when you dont take in your momentum. But one of the coolest things has to be the pocket. like a lot of people that play madden, I had michael vick syndrom, always scrambling and throw on the run, I tried that crap in 2k8 and realized it wasnt gona work. Then i realized oh shit y am i running i have a pocket, then i realized wow I have to set my feet b4 i can throw the ball accurately, this was like finding life on mars to me....lol. but i understand what u mean about the controls, then i played ncaa 2008, and tried the same thing, no pocket formed, the passing game is awful, i thow a lob to my tightend who was 20 yards down the field, and it was picked off by a line backer thats was 5 yards away from me. What im tryna say is in 2k8 when things happen its because of a good call good positioning, and control. when it happens in and EA game it feels scripted, especially in ncaa. I play in legend mode as a running back, tell me why my quartedback had 7 interceptions in 3 quarters, and I was playing FIU. WTF. Oh and in a way we were forced to buy madden, we all love football and want to play as our favorite team, and players, how do we do that if we only have one choice. Ok I feel better now, real football, real impact players that do what there suppose to 2k8, real depth, and fun for individual players madden.

Great... Now my reply shows up. Sorry for the double (now triple) posting guys. There's no 'edit/delete' option here? :)

John Says:
"When NFL 2k was out, everyone bought into having two competing football brand on the market, but in the end Madden still reined out on top for a reason."

That reason would be that they BOUGHT out their competition by paying an assload of money for exclusive rights. Its not as if 2K faded out because it was an inferior product. EA used their deep pockets to force them out.

EA has the NFL license - that's the ONLY reason it sells. PERIOD.

EA cannot touch 2K in gameplay. 2K goes that extra mile to make it's games much more realistic. How the hell can you have an so-called NFL game and you don't even have refs on the field? Yes, it is minor, but that's all the reason more why it shouldn't be left out. There's no reason NOT to have it in any game. All Pro's gameplay is second to none, and the series will only get better with time. EA knows this, and will do everything in it's power to keep All Pro on the sidelines because they fear 2K. Why do you think they ran out and got the license after they saw 2K5? They knew they were in trouble. EA's reign is about to end in football with the re-emergence of 2K and All Pro.

I was a madden player on the next-gen systems for the last 2 years. I really wasn't familiar with 2k5 because i played madden on the xbox also. I just bought all pro last week, and i have to say that all pro is so much more like a real football game. The way you have to set your feet to throw, the way the recievers run the routes, the catches, the tackling, the running, everything is so much better and more realistic. The last 2 maddens really sucked to me, and i hope 08 is better, but ea tells us every year how the game is going to be improved, and then we get the same old crap. all pro is a breath of fresh air. I hope that all pro continues to get better each year.

Madden is some BS! All you suckers that keep giving EA 60 bucks for a roster update, keep being fools! ALL PRO is the shit! No sane person will look at ALL PRO and say it's not better than Madden! All Pro is REAL FOOTBALL! Madden Sucks ASS!

heres what I find so funny. o.k. you have the football game everybody loves, Madden of course. Madden ruled since 1995. If you
re gonna get a football game, it had to be madden. How good a football game can be? and then all of a sudden 2k5 came out with a real football game. and blew madden out in sales and gameplay.

this game had all what madden didn't have, gang-tackling physics, a real halftime show, etc. and what madden had to offer? solo tackles on every play, the game running 150 mph (thats what made 2k5 seem so slow, try ankle-weights), mike vick chucks the football 50 yards to a TD...but after he rolls to his right and does a 360 of his right foot? Madden really, had no competition.

so after being exploited and instead of stepping up their game, they decided to go out like punks and made sure that no NFL game can be made. So madden can deliver the same patched up madden 2002 and by the way, instead of improving the actual gameplay, lets just throw in the Hit-stick and QB vision. these dumb people don't know a real football game when they see on. This is the only NFL game that football fans everywhere have to cough up $60 for Mediocrity.

I've been told that it's not what you sale, its how you sell it. although 2k football makes way better football games than madden, People will still buy madden just because. Madden could care less about improving and making the game complete. just as long as the money it rolls in, regardless of how half-assed it is. Marketing and advertising was their best weapon. I know their slogan is "...its in the game." hey, thats all what people need to hear before blowing their gas money away.

but i've also been told that you can't beat the real thing. and it will be a madder of time before Madden will bite the dust, especially after losing the NFL license and 2k football. hey being greedy always will end you up in destruction. and to be honest, EA sports will reap what they sow, trust me. and the madden curse is real.

Actually, you're wrong about the sales comment. Madden still blew out 2K5 in sales. It's got just a strong following. 2K5 just blew it out critically and made a significant dent in Madden's market dominance. But Madden still sold a TON more and that's not even considering Madden was on every platform. If 2K5 outsold Madden, it would have been on the XBox. But still, Madden was clearly the better seller and will be for a long time. It's just too well known and marketed.

Anyway... :)

i wanted to know if anyone knew if 2k was going to make another all pro next year or are they finished

I doubt they'd make another one if this one doesn't sell enough to pay for the staff they'd want to put together.