http://www.ripten.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57

Thanks!

and they already made us pay more money for games, remember they jacked the price up and then for the consumer gave us for pay dlc.

I just don’t see how a developer crying about a system being hard to develop for is relevant, fixed hardware with set limitations is what consoles have always been, hows the ps3 any different?

There have already been a number of good games for the ps3 and more will come. the good game developers suck it up and get the job done and make great games. so what does it matter if a few whiny fangurl developers like gabe are pro microsoft? what does there bitching mean to us? how many gamers who go and make these arguments could make a game on the supposed easier platform?

Nor did I say DMC4 looks better on the PS3, which Chad has covered for me. In reality, since the Xbox 360 has 2xAA and the PS3 has an approximation to 2xAA – the 360 version could be called “definitive”.

To your fourth comment – multi-threaded coding is going to have to become the standard – and the PS3’s current failure is that it forces this on developers, whereas the Xbox 360 can still perform well with single-threaded coding.

It is predicted that coding for multiple threads (on multiple cores) can be upto 5x as expensive to develop, and it’s unsurprising many developers are reticent to move on from single threads. Could this price difference be shown in DMC4’s differing launch prices (£10 more expensive on the PS3)?

Multi-threaded coding will start to become standard for the Xbox 360 towards the end of this generation, if not very soon – and since PC’s are also moving in this direction, it’s an inevitable move. Regrettably, Sony is trying to force the move forward without a natural evolution – and crucially without providing sufficient tools to developers early on (and without providing money to third party developers to take these steps, like it is with it’s first/second party devs). This forcefulness could be Sony’s downfall.

As far as developers constantly complaining about the inexorable tide of advancement, I don’t see that being the case. No one bitched about the Xbox being a pain, and it was, from what I can recall, a more powerful machine than the PS2. The 360 is more powerful than the Xbox, and no one seems to be complaining about jumping from one to the other. Yes, people have bitched about Sony’s crazyness since time immemorial, but before they had numbers to back them up and that made it worth developers time to develop for them.

Thank you for being the voice of reason. Your no prize is in the mail.

Chad-

But before I do…
David – More difficult isn’t always better, but its harder to build a Nuke then it is to build a bullet. Both do their job, but one does it better. Progress = increased difficulty (ok, a nuke is a bad example).
Kiezer – fangirl is a little harsh

and PS3>360
HAHAHAHAH! I win!

Seriously though, lets stop arguing before someone strokes out.

to me when a developer says something to this affect its often involving porting sloppy code to a different architecture. to bad easily stealing peoples money isn’t really easy for these 3rd parties who port there games to every system possible and usually there efforts show.

if it makes these guys happy to complain about it fine but hey I wasn’t really all that interested in giving them 60 bucks for high tech virtual Frisbee or is that boomerang simulator anyway…

the ps3 is no different than any other console in the past, its new, its different and time marches on and this argument remains the same.

Dan the magneto Fangurl destroyer? lol I Dub thee!

seems to me every new generation your gonna have some whiny ass developer complaining about doing his job. if the past is any indicator and the complexity of technology only being made more complex then it will continue to infinity. who will cry next?

who cleans your fangurl shredder dan? it’s looking pretty messy in here…

I am not one who often digs deeply into the world of tech specs because in all honesty, my view is that if it looks good to my eyes then I don’t really give a shit about anything else.

In regards to the DMC4 article Patrick wrote, which is being discussed on this thread, it was my understanding that the conclusion arrived at was that both versions looked the same.

To be clear, Patrick stated the following:

“There aren’t many differences between these two. You might be mistaken into thinking that the Xbox 360’s textures are of a higher resolution. This is untrue. By altering the sharpness settings for the PS3 you will be able to exactly replicate the Xbox 360 image.”

He then went on to add:

“The texture resolutions are the same on both consoles.”

Hopefully this clears up any misunderstandings.

Chad-

I don’t see how I’m backing up your point. You listed 4 examples of systems that were hard to develop for, as if that was supposed to show that hard to develop for systems are successful. I pointed out that they’re not. I don’t know what kind of backpedaling you are trying to do there, but you are only making yourself look bad.

Yes, the RROD is horrible and the 360 sucks. I would not, nor did I ever, deny that. The system has a lifespan of a year before it craps out, but Microsoft at least admits there is a problem and replaces it for free. I went through 3 PSOnes and 3 PS2’s, and as much as those systems sucked, Sony never admitted there was a problem with them, so I paid out of pocket to get a replacement. At least the time that my 360 does work I have great games to play on it. My PS3, on the other hand, would sit there and be reliable, mainly because it would only be used to watch movies.

And no, I don’t need to look at things more “subjectively”. That’s what you are accusing me of doing right now. I think you mean “objectively”. If you learned anything in school and had a proper grasp of the English language, you would know the difference between these two words.

I don’t think I misrepresented the N64/Saturn subject at all. You mentioned them, and I simply pointed out that two of the 4 are not backing up your point. Basically, your examples are really just examples of your incompetence and illogical reasoning. Congratulations on that.

I don’t see how I have to be a developer in order to express my feelings about the PS3. You are also not a developer, yet you continue to slam the 360 and praise the PS3. Fine examples of hypocrisy there — one more thing you should be proud of. I don’t recall any developers complaining about the 360 and it’s difficulty to develop for, but this article alone shows you a fine example of them not exactly liking the PS3. Valve’s head cheese even called the PS3 a disaster that should be recalled. It seems I don’t have to be a developer myself because they all seem to think the same way I do.

You claim to own and love both systems, and yet you continue to bash the 360 in favor of the PS3, which makes your statements seem, well, like total lies. You are a fanboy that can’t admit it, and I feel bad for you.

If you wish to continue attacking me and calling me names, please take a few courses in English or reading comprehension first so you know what the fuck you’re talking about. Thanks, come again.

Have you read any of the articles published by Dan Landis below?

http://www.ripten.com/2008/01/16/microsoft-had...

http://www.ripten.com/2008/01/07/xbox-live...

http://www.ripten.com/2008/01/03/rumor...

http://www.ripten.com/2007/12/28/...

My guess is that you have not. Please do some research before you run your mouth, otherwise the only person that ends up looking like a “fangirl” is you.

Chad-

You criticized Sony’s hardware architecture, but failed to mention anything about 360’s UNRIVALLED fault rate with the RROD plague.

Fangirl, you need to look at things more subjectively….I’m not having a go at you because you don’t back my system, but moreso that your posts wreak of hypocrisy. Case in point is how you chose to bring up my Saturn, N64 point, but failed to mention PS2…You also fail to mention that PS3 is actually outselling it’s main competitor in a time frame relevance.

You also jump on PS3’s supposed design architecture flaws, and fail to mention your beloved 360’s 3billion+ problem. And how after 3 years, one of the richest companies in the world have failed to rectify the RROD plague. I bought a 360 in December, and by early Jan. I had the dreaded 3x RROD problem. You are not a developer, so basically you can comment as much as you like about PS3’s shortcomings…But it just means you look like a non-in the know fangirl that likes to guess the faults of a system you do not favor.

I, on the other hand, am a consumer, so as a consumer that bought a 360 that failed 3 weeks into it’s short life, I am entitled to express my FACTS….As RROD is a well documented FACTUAL 360 hardware architecture problem….Wheras, PS3’s hard to develop for theory is actually relative to actual developers. And if we read some of the past interviews from developers, some say the PS3 is hard to developer for, and others say it isn’t as hard as it’s made out to be. And to add to that, it is known to be much easier to develop for than PS2. (Again, according to REAL developers, but what would those idiots know, compared to you).

I don’t care what system you prefer, I have both, think both are great, but admittedly prefer PS controllers and exclusives….But at least when I express views on one system of another, I use facts, and don’t try to speculate on things I know nothing about.

Go get a job with Fox News if you wanna be a journo…..you’ll fit in real nice there.

Instead, it should be understood as a potential manufacturer’s aim: to produce a system that’s going to last and compete over the years. Sony’s and Krazy Ken’s thinking may be that creating a system with depth will provide continuing growth over the lengthy period they have laid down for it (10 years). Whether this is the correct way to develop a system is unsure.

What Sony should be called out on is the lack of PS3 tools before and after launch – taking almost a year to support third party developers is a shocking delay. It is also a failure to skimp on memory after spending so much money on the rest of the system.

However, producing a system with 6/7 “cores” (whilst also keeping the system cheap…almost) that might not be easy to get a hang of early on, could potentially have huge gains later in the consoles lifetime. It was not their intention to create a system that was difficult to develop for, it was their intention to develop a system that had considerable depth and a lengthy lifetime (10 years, not 4 or 5). That much is transparent.

Did Sony fail in this target? Did they place too much emphasis on lifetime rather than ease of use – yes, probably. They might just pay for this.

Keizer: Calling developer lazy because they weren’t given the tools to develop for a new system is very insulting to them. It’s all very well saying that “don’t know what they’re doing”, or “couldn’t be bothered” – but presenting a system with a completely new way of thinking, and without the tools to use its power to it potential is in no way their fault. It’s Sony’s fault for taking so long to get up to speed.

Further more, calling my fellow Journo Dan Landis a “fangirl” for disagreeing with what he thinks I’m saying, is both wrong and insulting.

Thanks, whoever that was for that great list of games that are going to bring the PS3 to the forefront of gaming awesomeness, but I seem to recall that GTA4 is a cross platform game, so I don’t see how it’s going to push PS3 hardware sales. Oh, and the 360 doesn’t have any quality exclusives coming out at all… I mean, Fable 2, Splinter Cell, Too Human, Ninja Gaiden… nope, all coming to the PS3, right?

Oh, and I love the FREE multiplayer that’s thrown around all the time. I’m sure that free multiplayer is great when you’re talking to your friends on UT… oh wait.. no voice support. Yeah, have fun with that.

As far as Dan Landis being a fanboy, I would have to disagree. While his views may be scewed towards the 360, it seems it’s more to do with facts and honest perception rather than fanboyism. Patrick, on the other hand… I’m not saying he’s the worst I’ve ever seen or anything, but I mean, this stuff that he comes up with sometimes defies logic. The PS3 is better because it’s a pain to develop for? Or how about the whole Devil May Cry 4 thing. The graphics on the PS3 are better, but you don’t notice unless you turn up the brightness on your tv and stand on your head. Yeah, that’s real objectivity there. I can accept when games are equally good on both systems. Hell, I like it, it’s better for gamers when we have more options, but to me Sony dropped the ball and is not a consumer friendly system in any way shape or form. They basically said going into this that people will buy their shit no matter what and they were wrong. Yes, the guy responsible for that has been canned, but it’s not like the system has had some sort of sudden change because of that.

Carry on.

People also don’t seem to take into account how multiplatform games affect the timeline of 360 vs PS3. COD4, for example, came out much earlier in the life cycle of the PS3 than the 360, even though it released at the same time on both systems. Don’t you think that would skew the comparison a bit? There are many factors that people just don’t consider because they are blinded by fanboyism, yet I make perfectly logical statements and that makes me automatically a “fangirl” because I don’t back your system. Congratulations go out for ignoring common sense.

Twelve cents is your change. Please come again.

I’m sure Sony know what they are doing, more than a rabid, obese fangirl like you. If we take a look back at time, we see the snes was hard to develop for, the n64 was hard to develop for, the saturn was hard to develop for, the PS2 was notoriously hard to develop for, and now the PS3 is harder to develop for.

Your precious Xbox console, is an excellent machine, but I do not want all my machines unified with the same architecture and components……. Different parts used inside, means unique developers will come up with the goods…… Team Ico, London Studios, Cambridge Studios and the like, as well as the previously mentioned TOP TIER developers. Cheap ass hacks will resort to giving PS3 owners half assed ports.

The Xbox will continue to get pc handmedown fps’s like last gen, and the PS3’s usual suspects of developers that enjoy a challenge (instead of the same monotony every day) will give us the ICO’s, SOTC’s, GOW’s, Motorstorm’s, Haze’s, COD4’s, Burnout’s, and the such.

I didn’t realize you were calling patrick out, but everything I say still stands, as from your 1st input your fangirlism wreaked through my computer screen.

Speak to me in November when PS3 has shared as much time being released as 360 had at the point it had games like Gears, Bioshock, Halo3 and the such. As I recall EA had their 1st 360 Madden offering running at 30fps, and several developers had trouble with getting 360 games up to scratch for a while.

Thank you for your comments and your interest in this article in general. I especially appreciate the notion that I am a stupid American Xbox fanboy. Please learn to read before you start trying to insult people. My comment was a direct response to Patrick’s comment, which is right above mine. He was suggesting that “hiding the tech” was a good thing, and I was saying that it was a ridiculous idea. I do not think Sony is “hiding the tech” to future-proof the PS3. I honestly think it was just poorly designed, and all this future-proofing mumbo-jumbo is just another one of the many lame excuses used by PS3 fanboys to justify the harder-to-develop-for system. Please get your own fanboyism in check before you come attacking mine.

Thanks again, and please pull up to the next window.

I don’t know (or care) if your a budding journo or what, but at least try to hide that old fanboyism that yearns inside you. You must be an American with all this patriotic “good ol’ U.S. of goddam A” product better and easier to program for crap.

Be a bit more subjective, and less flamboyant fanboy please.

I have a PS3 and a 360 and both are simply great machines. As proven time and time again, and is common knowledge to non-fanboys (or true gamers) games built from ground up by good developers on PS3 hardware will be a benefit to both developers and consumers. Put the effort into the PS3 version, and both games will come up trumps. Different architecture demands different strategies from developers….Some of these lazy developers, are too set in the pc architecture mold and just fail to realize that beaten paths are for beaten developers.

Nor did I say there’s no growth in the 360 – since 360 games are only really starting to use all three cores. Whether it has as much growth over it’s whole lifetime is another question – but I’d say that Microsoft will looking for a slightly longer lifetime than their original box.

A console cant be constantly updated like a PC, so hiding the tech from developers so it can be found later on is very good. Less experienced developers or those without the official tools will not be able to take early advantage like First Party developers (Naughty Dog etc) but as the code/knowledge becomes available, all developers will be producing things not originally thought possible. That’s the hope, that is. I’m unaware whether this is a conscious decision. Moreover, i agree that tools should be available and memory should be greater. But creating the Cell which is hard to understand and forces developers to think differently, could be an advantage for the industry, even if they find it difficult at first.

“Hell, Gears of War 2 looks a bit better then the first one, and I seem to recall a lot of naysayers saying that GoW would be the pinnacle of the 360’s graphics capabilities since it was so easy to develop for.

So basically, Sony’s system will have crappier games longer and have less third party support until almost the end of the console’s lifespan, which by then will even more too late than it is now.”

That’s just going from one absurd extreme to another.

David: I’d hope there’d be plenty of games that blow Gears away. I’d hope there are plenty now.

I would say no’s will grow for PS3′ user base by November when these titles are out.

LBP
Killzone 2
Eight Days
Unchartered 2
Resistance 2
GT5
GTA4
Motorstorm 2
MGS4
Haze
Final Fantasy
Not to mention family Wii competing games like Singstar and Buzz.

With the exception of FF and the addition of a fair few exclusives and multiplats, I’d say PS3’s growth will broaden the gap to a very large degree. Add to this PS3’s ever lowering production costs to retail price tag, FREE online service, a 2nd life type thing called Home (also FREE), and as cliched as it might sound, the profound impact that hd dvd’s death will have on potential console consumers (we all know now that hd tv’s costs have lowered enough now to allow most people to either already have one, or be well on the way to owning one).

For you to ask the question of how will PS3 sell heaps more units, and potentially surpass 360’s user base is ludicrous, for the fact that nothing is a given, but if we take into consideration that PS3 outsold 360 in 2007, and got to 10 million well before 360 did after it’s launch is a pretty good indication. As well as the fact that it is wide documented online knowledge that PS3 has the higher no. of quality exclusives in it’s 2008 lineup.

I’m sure you probably asked the same question to PS2 owners after it’s launch against the Dreamcast, that already had a well established user base, and plenty of aaa games. I’m not being a fanboy here, but as a long time gaming fan, Sony just knows how to pull a rabbit out of their hats…..Even when they bungle things up slightly, and the press jump on them like a lion on a wounded gazelle. Out of all three, Sony’s marketing skills, and general business knowledge manages to pull them out of holes that companies like Sega were incapable of clawing out of.

I really doubt at the end of the 360s lifespan we won’t see at least a couple games that blow gears away, if not in graphics then at least in other ways.