CliffyB Calls Metal Gear Solid “Passive Entertainment”
by Dan Landis on June 25, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Cliff Bleszinski, lead game designer of Gears of War 2, cites Metal Gear Solid as the kind of game Epic doesn’t want to make. What were his exact words? Read on to find out.
In a recent interview with IGN, CliffyB was quoted in saying the following:
“Metal Gear Solid is our example of the game we’re not doing. Passive entertainment is on its way out.”
The story itself is just IGN’s preview of Gears multiplayer, which is interesting, but CliffyB’s quote kinda came out of nowhere. Am I sensationalizing this, or did CliffyB just totally dis Metal Gear Solid?
Source: xbox360.ign.com
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on June 25, 2008 3:55 pm
I am still yet to form a full opinion on Mr. B. Sometimes he seems really cool, and on others he seems like a man-boy making games about ginat walking cocks.
on June 25, 2008 4:20 pm
The man is right!!! I totaly agree with him.
on June 25, 2008 4:24 pm
yeah. . . well, i’d much rather rip all my game ideas from other games, too! (kill.switch), and while i’m at it, i’d like to make my NEW game exactly like the old one just with prettier graphics (ut3), and hell, why not use the same marcus fenix character model in every game? why spend so much time on story? kill switches gameplay is enough to carry the whole project!
on June 25, 2008 4:46 pm
Damn, there go my hopes for sneaking around in Gears of War 2. :(
on June 25, 2008 4:47 pm
I guess he did whether he meant to or not. Maybe he mean to as he said passive entertainment is on the way out.
I dont think thats right though. I think is just two different styles of gaming experience and its up to player preference.
on June 25, 2008 4:50 pm
hahaha
“Quote translated: “We don’t make MGS because our Unreal Engine isn’t designed to make MGS type games — therefore MGS sucks. Also, I sure as hell hope we share 1/10th of the success the Metal Gear franchise did with their sequels otherwise I will be using this bayonet to saw off my foot and shove it in my mouth. Long live BLAAAAAAZNATS!!!!”
on June 25, 2008 5:11 pm
he is talking about the cut scenes, MGS4 is extremely cutscene heavy, he says the games he wants to make are more about playing the story and not watching it happen
on June 25, 2008 5:11 pm
O.o Cliffy B is known for his stupid comments and constant bitching about everything he doesnt agree with and everything that isnt pro HIM.
He even “dissed” his own company for making gears of war on the PC.
Cliffy B must have some serious mental issues or something, no sane person is complaining as mutch as he does!
on June 25, 2008 5:21 pm
The original Metal Gear Solid sold 6 million copies on a console with an install base of 100 million, and every MGS game after that sold progressively less. Gears of War sold almost 5 million on a console with an install base of only 19 million. Halo games have sold more copies on each subsequent release. Given the nature of Xbox owners and their buying habits, I think Gears 2 will do just fine.
No judgment there, I’m just saying.
on June 25, 2008 5:32 pm
And to think, I was considering buying a 360 just for Gears 2 but with that little comment, there goes any chance of me buying a 360. PS3 & MGS FTW!
on June 25, 2008 5:33 pm
if he actually put some of these “passive entertainment” cutscenes in his games, then gears might have taken me SIX hours to beat instead of five. long live mindless games with no story!!!!
on June 25, 2008 5:43 pm
1/10th the success of Metal Gear? As far as I know, GoW is doing just as well as MGS has done at this point. I mean, if you just start counting from MGS on the PSX. The both sold over 5 million copies. I don’t see how you can possibly sit there and say that Epic is “hoping” that they’ll be as successful as MGS. I mean, anything can happen, but considering that Epic hasn’t managed to kill the Unreal franchise yet, I’m sure that GoW will be just fine. Furthermore, how is the unreal engine not designed to do MGS style games? What “style” of game is that? It’s a fucking graphics engine and just off the top of my head I can think of several “styles” of game that it’s been used it, including shooters, RPGs, and pinball games. I think that’s more diversity than whatever engine used in MGS4 has shown at this point.
Besides, we all know that every Metal Gear game was two hours of play time and four to six hours of cut scenes and dialog. Hell, I beat MGS in the PSX an hour and a half one time. I mean, there are cut scenes that are over an hour long in MGS 4 and somehow you want to argue that it’s not passive entertainment? How about this from Ars Technica:
quote:
Originally posted by max4677:
So of those 14 hours, how many are actual play time?
Probably 6, possibly 8.
So around half the time you’re playing MGS4 you’re just sitting there and watching it. How’s that not passive? Don’t get me wrong, I love a good story and I think it’s very important in my enjoyment of a game, but you can’t fault the Blazinator for telling it like it is.
on June 25, 2008 6:02 pm
“Blurs of gore 2 and Metal Grey boring 4″
sir ancient, you are a master slam-artist.
on June 25, 2008 6:14 pm
Shit! We need to implement a bubble system on this site so I can receive bubbles from sir ancient. Chad, get on that!
on June 25, 2008 6:24 pm
Clearly two different games.
I do believe MGS4 has more gameplay than cutscenes, and more gameplay than Gears of War 1. The SP campaign took me 24hours - 15hours gameplay, 9hours cutscenes (2-3 hours of that you can “play through” with the Mk2).
How many hours of gameplay was GOW1?
He is right in saying GOW is less passive than MGS4 - but MGS4 isn’t a passive game. Moreover, GOW is a fast paced game, MGS is slow in pace.
on June 25, 2008 6:30 pm
Yeah of course Sir faggot, MGS4 sucks because its like a disney movie, stealthy, has an actual good story, that takes actual intelligent people to understand, and of course all disney movies are 18+, with use of strong language, sexual references, and violence and blood, how about if you ever get smarter, do this, watch the damn cutscenes, or skip them.
Krispy
two hours of play time and four to six hours of cut scenes and dialog, hmm, it took me 6 hours to rush through the game, and 12 hours to beat it the first time, so a good story = a bad game (MGS4) and a shitty story with lots of mindless violence = a good one (GoW, aliens are taking over the planet, help us, wait, thats the exact same story as Halo)
And the mgs style of games is stealth espionage action, the unreal engine has been used on mindless shooting games with a crappy story. And the MGS engine had to be remade for MGS1, then 3, and 4, thats 3 engines for one game of the same genre, because each game actually adds new gameplay elements to it, as all I saw with GoW II is chainsaw clashing and colours.
and btw I have both a PS3 and 360, and Im looking forward to getting GoW II, as it seems like it would be a fun game, as I do like to mindlessly shoot people for no reason, but I would rather a game with an actual story.
on June 25, 2008 7:01 pm
Wow Dan, you gave birth to a new star. I wish i was at Sir Ancient’s knighthood.
on June 25, 2008 7:06 pm
“That guy”: You can have whatever opinion you wish to have, but if you think Halo has a simple one line story, I.E. “aliens attacking oh no”, You are an idiot and are sadly mistaken, there are 5, soon to be 6 books that elaborate and intertwine with the games so complexly, that you’re inadequate mind would probably exploded at the thought of comprehending it, so think before you speak.
on June 25, 2008 7:07 pm
EDIT: Meant to write “explode” in my last post, not “exploded”
=P
on June 25, 2008 7:27 pm
Lets tone it down a bit guys (and girls). Bashing a game is perfectly fine, however repeatedly throwing insults at other readers will get you banned from commenting.
If you guys want to have heated debates about this issue please take it to the forums.
Thanks,
Chad-
on June 25, 2008 7:36 pm
@Dan Landis
“The original Metal Gear Solid sold 6 million copies on a console with an install base of 100 million”
So you are saying the PSOne had sold 100 million units by 1998?
*sigh*
Seriously… you need to get a grip.
on June 25, 2008 7:43 pm
Good lord, what have I done…
on June 25, 2008 7:43 pm
sir ancient, you are a douchebag. Take your douchebaggery comments elsewhere.
on June 25, 2008 8:07 pm
Alright everyone, I apologize for the continuous spamming of this comment area by sir ancient. He will be banned and his comments shall be deleted.
Chad-
on June 25, 2008 8:17 pm
Well, obviously. They aren’t making a tactical espionage action game. They’re making a piece of shit. I’m sorry but when I have to riddle someone with hundreds and hundreds of bullets to kill them or smash their head before they revive is bullshit to me.
on June 25, 2008 9:05 pm
I’m a bit disappointed with Cliffy B. for completely shafting a series that is as renowned as MGS. I’ve been saying this for the last while, games are getting less focused on telling us a story and more focused on just doing things. This is wrong, and the same reason why MGS4 is a good push for today’s games.
Also, to whom spoke of Halo: you shouldn’t have to go read books in order for the game to have story. Halo itself has a rather bland story after the first Halo, though the first wasn’t exactly anything stellar either. It resounds of things like Alien or Predator. Hell the elites models are practically alien MEETS predator. The first Halo was the best, simply because it wasn’t hyped to the end of the world.
Back to Cliffy; I sincerely hope that he apologizes for his insult toward MGS, though I’m not going to hold my breath on it. Here’s hoping GoW2 isn’t just another mindless shooter…who am I kidding…-sighs- and here come the fanboys! -hides-
on June 25, 2008 9:15 pm
Ben: the notion that Halo has a comprehensible story worth following is total bullshit. I know plenty of fanboys who like to cite the Halo books - congratulations, you can read - and that’s very convenient, but I prefer to judge a game based on, I don’t know, how about THE GAME. If it ain’t on that game disc, it don’t matter to me. Sure, it’s nice to see a universe expanded upon (and I don’t care if the books are licensed/approved by Bungie), but definitively, the thing that Bungie screwed the pooch on was story. For being Master Chief’s “final fight”, this was beyond lame. Good gameplay, though.
Sorry, I don’t have a comment about Gears or MGS. Except this: Snake could kill every Gear in formation before anyone knew he was even there. Which is a good thing for Snake. Because if the Gears did find him, they’d saw him in half. Savages. Snake would just ground-hump them.
on June 25, 2008 10:14 pm
Yeah, the ps had 100 mil install base SEVEN YEARS after this game was released. Not to mention the fact that shooters are much more appealing to most gamers than tactical stealth espionage. Try to pull your mouth off of Cliffy Bs cock while your wikipedia-ing.
on June 25, 2008 10:20 pm
A Superior Entity (and BigBallsBarry),
I think you need to get a clue. Do you honestly mean to tell me that no copies of MGS were sold after its initial release? Yes, you are correct, the PSOne had only sold 54 million by the end of 1998, but I’m sure any mathematician would tell you that 54 million is much greater than 19 million. The 360 didn’t have an install base of 19 million when Gears came out either, but you didn’t bring that up for some strange reason (which is fairly apparent).
Bottom line is that people have continued to buy the Playstation and Metal Gear Solid well after they were first released. I don’t see how looking at the total sales of a game versus the total sales of the platform it’s on is not a valid statement, and quite frankly, I find your opposition a bit shortsighted.
on June 25, 2008 10:23 pm
cliffy b is a moron!! gears of war was a fun single player but multiplayer was a huge mistake 8 player online shooters are nut fun so last gen gow2 will be just cashing in on your enthusiasm ooooh more one more reason to justify the 5th 360 in 2 years more morons on the microsoft payroll dont diss next gen games appreciate mgs4 great things are coming!!!
on June 25, 2008 10:59 pm
THIS IS FALSE! On the Blu ray disc of MGS4: LE, CB was complementing the game! LOL!!! Nice try!
on June 25, 2008 10:59 pm
I agree with Cliffy B. The passive game is already gone in my opinion.
On that note - I will gladly watch/play another game of the quality of MGS4 than anything Epic is doing.
on June 25, 2008 11:01 pm
never bought any of his games so who gives a F what he says . mgs 4 is a masterpiece my opinion and i been playing games for 25 years. I never got into computer games so I wouldnt comment on that. Its funny how i been playing games for 25 years and never like none of his shiii.
on June 25, 2008 11:08 pm
“Metal Gear Solid is our example of the game we’re not doing.”
What, a game with no story?
I 3> MGS
on June 25, 2008 11:23 pm
A girl leaves for work and look at all the fun she misses out on.
on June 25, 2008 11:51 pm
are you for real? this guy is a fag first of all, how can you hate on metal gear when its not even in the same league as GOW, i cant even slow my thought process down to make words come out that have meaning. this guy thinks he can just go out there and bash out 20yrs of gaming history, are you for real? when he was shitting in his diapers Hideo was coming up with ideas and making metal gear the game it is today. Cliffy is nothing more than a jealous kidd, with faggy blonde hair who doesnt know how to play metal gear, you know one of those kids who says ” how come there heads arent exploding “. Cliffy your GAME SUCKS just like halo it was all over hype, and some cool graphics, let me see your bring depth and beauty to a game than start running your mouth and for you all kids out there who agree with him, remove your lips from Cliffys balls.
on June 26, 2008 12:01 am
Don’t know anything about war, mutilation, torture, and nuclear catastrophe being passive.
Go figure.
on June 26, 2008 12:31 am
Why does CliffyB state the obvious? Gamers already know he’s not into doing games with a fleshed out story and original (see: not paper thin) characters.
Mindless action and cookie cutter characters, with no story to think about, all the way, for the Gears series.. right? Right.
on June 26, 2008 12:52 am
If you want a game with a story try the old point and click adventures or even normal adventure games, they dont feel the need to bombard you with hour long cut scenes. I loved the game but felt that the game was mostly cut scenes and when you’ve played all the metal gears your used to the gameplay so shoot through it giving you less actual gameplay time. Gears of War was shit full stop its for the kids who asked why theres no planes in GTA.
on June 26, 2008 2:08 am
Seriously, CliffyB, dissing MGS. That reminds me of the knight with no legs fight from Monty Python. Sheesh, and this dude is like 33. Grow up man and lose the faux hawk.
on June 26, 2008 2:23 am
CliffyB/Epic have never had imagination. UT3 was Quake and has been rehased to death, Gears was kill switch with UT graphics.
GG Epic, you’re seriously ruined any faith I had left afte the last years stuff.
MGS4 is far superior to the entire collection of Epics works in one game, jealousy is a ugly thing.
on June 26, 2008 5:05 am
Well tbo Gears of War is the sort of game Hideo Kojima will never want to make. So well done CliffyB for being such a douche. Plus I would bet he hasnt even played MGS4.
on June 26, 2008 5:24 am
I don’t agree at all with Cliffy.
Even if my idea of playing a game doesn’t involve lengthy cut scenes, I feel like he’s falling on his own sword with this statement.
Because, although I like to move about more in a game, I rather have a game that you can remember,
characters that you can truly feel for. And a story to be truly immersed in. I just hope Cliffy doesn’t fall into the “it’s a hit now, so let’s make a sequel with even more of a lackluster plot and gimmicky game mechanics that will surely keep hard headed 3 second attention spanned-xbox live fans playing for weeks on end” state of mind.
and keep in mind: I have both a PS3 and 360.
on June 26, 2008 6:25 am
Wow. You guys are a real piece of work. Some guy says that his game is not like some other guys game.
And by that you all go out into an all out attack, on both guys, both games, and eachother.
Now, I think there are problems here. But they do not lie with either Cliff, Kojima, GoW nor MGS. I’d bet these guys respect eachother’s work just fine, and at least they’re mature enough to not behave like little angry children who argues which plastic truck is bigger. Grow up children, you need to.
on June 26, 2008 7:25 am
@ JASON
Im not really sure what Cliffy B was hoping to accomplish from this statement, but thats the thing that sets him apart from most of the other developers out now. Hes not afraid to say things like that, and his attitude is a clear representation of his games. Also since its a matter of opinion, hes allowed to say whatever he wants, just like you are when you bashed his game.
If you analyze his statement carefully you could go either way. First he says that MGS4 is a game that hes NOT making. From what i get from this is that GoW2 is more towards empowering the gamer and making you feel like a bad ass soldier than a sneaky Veteran of war.
The second statement goes towards nobody is making stealth games anymore. MGS4 is one of a kind. I even think UBIsoft decided to have more action in Splinter Cell than the normal sneak and shoot. So in a sense hes correct, passive games (good ones) ARE on the way out since no one is clearly making them anymore. I think people took this as a stab at MGS4 because MGS4 is in the statement, I however, dont think he meant it that way.
Now you can question the mans sexuality and what not, though im sure hes getting alot more pudding than you.
on June 26, 2008 7:26 am
Also, his game was Game of the Year. So it couldnt have been that bad.
on June 26, 2008 7:28 am
If i remember correctly, cliffy b has a poster of Kojima in his office…he has respect for kojima as a developer, but dislikes passive gaming…it’s just not his style and the only thing he said it is not the way of EPIC doing things and passive gaming is on it’s way out maybe kojima realises it too, cause this was his last MGS game…
on June 26, 2008 9:43 am
American Way of Fud.
on June 26, 2008 10:49 am
Cliffy B is on some segments of the MGS4 bluray that came w/ the LE edition of the game. in it he talks about how much he loves the MGS series and how it introduced him to stealth games, in general. maybe that quote was taken out of context?
on June 26, 2008 11:36 am
Look, both games are great games, but to those that are defending Cliffy B and saying that Dan has taken his words out of context, I think you need to stop sniffing glue.
Here is the full quote:
“We wanted a blockbuster pace, and in doing so, we lost the story a bit. So that’s one of the lessons we learned. This time round there’s more repetition. Games aren’t movies and aren’t consumed in a single sitting. So secondary characters will remind you about stuff, which is re-established in plot cues. Metal Gear Solid is our example of the game we’re not doing. Passive entertainment is on its way out – you need to hook up with this web 2.0 stuff.”
So take a long hard look at what he is saying and you will see that he is bashing on MGS and MGS like games that entertain gamers with lengthy cinematics.
To wrap up his statement by saying “you need to hook up with this web 2.0 stuff.” is quite possibly the most idiotic thing he could say.
I will tell you exactly what the snot nose punk is doing. He is trying to tie the hype surrounding his game with the hype surrounding an established franchise and he succeeded. There was no need to mention MGS, he could have simply said “we aren’t looking to do a game heavy on cinematics” period.
He wanted the association with Metal Gear and he meant to blast the franchise.
on June 26, 2008 12:00 pm
This is TOTALLY the first time Cliffy B has dissed on a game that wasn’t his… :|
on June 26, 2008 12:28 pm
OMG I can’t believe peeps would bust on MGS4!? It was totally the best game eva made!! GoW sucked cause it had no story, MGS4 take lots of brainz to get and if you think that’s boring it’s because you gotz no smarts!!
Seriously? MGS4 is an original story but GoW is just aliens attacking humans? MGS, the entire series, is the quintisential lame action movie. One lone soldier against the odds has to take out the threat to planet/country/freedom. I love when people want to bust on a game they break it down to it’s very simple core, but when the boost a game up, it’s so very complicated. It’s not. GoW has story, What about Dom’s missing wife? What about Fenix’s trial? True, they don’t give you answers to a lot of the stuff they hint at, but surely someone trying to defend MGS isn’t going to try and bust on GoW for being vague or confusing? I’m sure right from the beginning we knew exactly who Revolver Ocelot was working for… right? And MGS2… yeah, that was so strait forward and made plenty of sense at the time as to how it fit into everything…
Everything else is just flavor that has nothing to do with the overall story if that’s how you want to break things down. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed the story and stuff of MGS, but after awhile the soapyness of it got to me. There is only so much melodrama I can take before I need an insulin shot. Sometimes it’s nice to not need a sixty fucking minute cut-scene to explain to me why I need to blow up a fucking tank. Call me on the radio, say “Krispy, blow up that muthafukin tank!” and I’ll do it. Shit, Mass Effect had a great story and even the dialog didn’t take a fucking hour in one sitting. I can’t think of any games where they needed to take an hour out of the gameplay to explain shit to you. To me, that sounds like bad video game storytelling and design. Bioshock was praised for it’s story and it didn’t have a single cut-scene. You got the story but weren’t pulled from the experience by PASSIVELY watching a movie. Wait a minute… didn’t Bioshock use the Unreal Engine…. I guess that’s just a mindless FPS also, huh?
on June 26, 2008 1:14 pm
Frankly, the MSG series never really interested me. I am, after all a FPS kind of guy. I am not into third person all that much either. (to me, FPS are more immersive.) even though I personally Liked Gears and probably will buy
Gears 2 when it comes out. I did not feel that it lacked a story.
It was laid out for you as you played,I don’t think that I have to have everything spelled out for me to get the big picture.
on June 26, 2008 1:22 pm
MGS is a stealth game mostly. Stealth is passive by nature. That’s the opposite of what Epic wants in their game play. His comment in no way questions the quality of MGS. Some of you really need to up the dosage of your meds.
on June 26, 2008 2:08 pm
FINAL PHOENIX (and any other haters)
Does anyone ever look at the source? I didn’t make this up. Go look for yourself. The source is there for a reason, easily clickable so you don’t even have to type the address in or copy and paste. Read it for yourself. Jeez…
on June 26, 2008 7:23 pm
If you want a story, go watch a fucking movie! All the MGS fans sound like bitches, “GOW sucks because its scary monsters with big guns and blood” yet its the same people who praise KZ and Gods of War… Punk ass bitches. If its fun PLAY IT! It doesnt matter what other people think. If you like the game…. you know what to do!
on June 26, 2008 11:13 pm
Contica,
I completely disagree with what you said.
You think Cliffy B was acting mature when he made a statement that was sure to stir up fanboy warefare?
on June 27, 2008 5:33 am
I thought he wasn’t CliffyB anymore. Isn’t his new name “The Crown Prince Clifford Bleszinski the III” or something like that?
Guess he’s still kind of a douche though.
@ adam: Yeah seriously, everyone seems to think Gears’ cover mechanic gameplay is something new, when kill.switch and even Winback had it in the PS2 days. Gears was an okay game, but it was only 4 hours of gameplay with an incoherent plot and recycled ideas. MGS4 is a great game and unique in both story and gameplay. It invented the stealth genre. The only thing Gears has added to gaming culture is a chainsaw strapped to an assault rifle.
on June 27, 2008 10:07 am
rosic, rosic , and rosic… kojima is the nest
on June 27, 2008 4:58 pm
Cenobia,
Not to re-incite a flame war, but nothing from Gears is original. Assault rifles with chainsaw bayonets have been in Warhammer 40,000 for the past 20 years.
on June 28, 2008 4:36 pm
get this cliffyb does not wanna be called that anymore he says its time to grow up hmmm
on June 28, 2008 7:15 pm
@xiiego,
True. I hear he now wants to be called Pac-Man B.