N4G Cares Not for Contributors, Only Bottom Line
by Chad Lakkis on March 30, 2009 at 10:28 am
Sites with user driven content sound great, but are they? N4G can be viewed as an example to many who have used it over the years of a site which started out great and has become little more than a corporate mouthpiece in recent months.
If you have tried to submit a story containing video or images to the site recently, chances are that you have been met with hordes of individuals directing you to embed the video/images. That wasn’t always the case. The site used to be much more laid back and willing to reward the sites hosting the content as long as they had a link to it on their own. So what has changed? Well, one thing that hasn’t is N4G’s official policy regarding the inclusion of video and images (shown below):
Attach Video (Step 3)
This step is optional, but if your story is linking to YouTube, GameTrialers.com or any other video site you can embed the video into your N4G news post. To do this copy and paste the video code into the “Attach Video” form. To find the video code look for words like “Embed” or “Add Video to Website” on the video sites.Adding Story Images
If your news post link to some new Halo 3 screenshots you can also upload those screenshots to N4G.com. Many readers are unable to visit the source sites because their workplace blocks access to game sites like IGN and Gamespot. By uploading some of the screenshots to N4G these readers will also be able to view the new screens.
The policy does not say that you must embed the video or images in the post you make, it simply says that you “can”. So, if the policy hasn’t changed, why are so many of the people that use N4G to promote news getting so much slack? The answer lies in the vision of the site’s moderators (some of which run their own gaming sites which clearly causes a conflict of interest on some level).
It seems that these moderators have decided to create their own law (one that is not echoed in the site’s official policy outlined above). Below is a post that appears in the site’s forum (the place everyone goes to look for official policy updates – not):
Time for a bump, as this came up today.
Embedding videos is optional for this reason only: Some sites do not provide embed code (major news networks, for example).
If there is embed code, it has to be embedded.
Let me tell you what is really going on. N4G merged with gaming site Gamesradar not long ago, and now acts as the news feed for that site. Having worked in the web design/user interface industry for nearly 10 years before starting Ripten, I can tell you that companies like to minimize clicks. A user coming from Gamesradar would have to click the news link on that site taking them to N4G and then click once again to see the actual video or image hosted on the source site. But that is way to many clicks for a Gamesradar reader. So while the policy on the site says you have an option, it seems that N4G is more than ready to force its contributors to embed content to help their cause even if it means hurting those who helped them build their presence in the first place.
N4G used to be a great site to help get news out to the masses if your site was just getting started. In fact, when Ripten started, I had been asked to help promote N4G by one of their founders through the addition of a social network button allowing our readers to submit our content to their site. I believed in what they were doing and saw the benefit of working with them. However the dictatorship that exists now with the site’s moderators has left a foul taste in the mouths of many.
This is not about Ripten’s “beef” with N4G. The reality is that we rarely create our own video content, however there are large gaming sites, and even lesser known outlets like HipHopGamer, who are creating their own video content and being forced to embed that content on N4G. HHG has openly expressed his distaste with the strong arming tactic, and I have personally spoken with individuals responsible for distributing the video content created by even main stream outlets, and it is safe to say that they have also experienced the embedding strong arm of N4G.
You may not like our content. You may not agree with our opinions. All of that is fine. What you should however agree with is that what drew contributors to N4G was in large part the ability to drive traffic to the news they found/created (the elite were even offered bonuses to do so, some of which are rewarded with the site’s moderator title today). That appeal is fading, and it should serve as a warning to us all the next time we consider helping a site that revolves around user generated content get its feet off the ground. I don’t “hate” N4G, but I do find the direction the site is heading to be an unfortunate one.
In the immediate future, it seems that sites creating original content will need to do away with the embed feature or insert multiple ads into their video to offset the loss of direct traffic. Sound off in the comment section below.
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38 Comments » |
on March 30, 2009 5:40 pm
Comment warnings:
Likely to be a lot of idiots show up soon. Don't click notify if you do decide to comment here.
Don't reply to anyone who says something stupid. Stupid doesn't mean a different opinion- it means saying things that bear no relation to reality. This can be easily spotted as comments without punctuation and grammar, although this isn't always the case. Be civil!
Remember, Chad's entitled to an opinion as much as anyone else is. He also happens to be a lot better versed in this than most.
on March 30, 2009 5:44 pm
No way! Idiots don't exist on the Internet. The Internet is too hard for idiots to navigate. Only the super elite smartest people in the world are on the Internet.
on March 30, 2009 6:02 pm
You're right! It all makes sense now! They're just excellent satirists of real stupid people on N4G!
on March 30, 2009 6:58 pm
So you are mad they have you embed videos to make things easier for the website. Poor you having to do more to submit. Honestly this is your big concern? Having to embed a video… I noticed the first post but the only idiotic thing here is complaining about a feature to make things more streamlined.
The only people mad at this are though who want hits from N4G like HHG. That's the only reason he doesn't want to embed videos as then no one would need to click the link for his precious hits.
on March 30, 2009 7:00 pm
Reason people are mad cause it takes away hits from the source. Sites should find a way to stop getting their stuff submitted.
on March 30, 2009 7:12 pm
This is pathetic, accusing N4G of hording Hits in a Rant about your site not getting as many hits as it could if there were no embedded. And then to blame all this on the staff! lol Its a public run site Idiot. The staff merely try to maintain a level of professionalism to the content. I would suggest getting rid of that N4G social network button.
on March 30, 2009 7:50 pm
Oh yeah? You're pathetic! Boom! Headshot!
In all seriousness, I really couldn't understand what you said. Sorry bro.
on March 30, 2009 7:50 pm
Dude, the PS3 sucks!
Wait, wrong argument…
on March 30, 2009 7:56 pm
Please learn to read. This is not about our site not getting hits over video. We don't create our own content. Thanks for trying User1.
on March 30, 2009 7:59 pm
I think its a perfectly fair point. Hits are the only thing that pay the bills and keep the web content coming. The only reason N4G got support at all was because it would generate hits for sites and so was a great news hub. Surely no one can suggest that it is right to take the entire content of the article and simply publish eleswhere? So there must be a limit.
Forcing everyone to embed video in this way is not within the spirit or wording of the original rule set and does take hits from the very sites that generate the content.
As for the mods, they certainly seem to be more preoccupied with matters like these than simply keeping the posts civil, on topic or even remotely relevant, which I had thought would be the first priority :)
FTR, I am a long time user of N4G, and would agree that its best days were actually 18 months back. You could occasionally even have an intellignet conversation with real gamers about games back then…. a far cry from the kiddie war trolling that makes up the bulk of the comments posts today!
on March 30, 2009 8:00 pm
The people that helped make N4G what it is today are people like HHG and other start up sites that reported news and posted it to N4G. How easily people want to forget that. Contributors didn't jump through the N4G test hoop system so that they could make the execs at N4G richer. They did it so that they could drive traffic to their site. Sites like G4TV and other creators of original content should be allowed to decide if, when, and where they want their content embedded.
You mock "precious hits" but what is it you think pays the bills for your N4G site?
on March 30, 2009 8:01 pm
Also learn to write. I honestly had a really hard time reading User1's comment. Good retort though Chad.
on March 30, 2009 8:02 pm
Also, I can dance all day, I can dance all day. Try and hit me!
on March 30, 2009 8:03 pm
Well put. Titntin. And I agree, forcing users to embed videos starts to defeat N4G's purpose.
on March 30, 2009 8:04 pm
The reason he doesn't want the videos embedded is because, as you said, it takes away his "precious hits". Without hits, your website will die. It's roughly equivalent to stealing a candy bar from the grocery store. The store didn't make the candy bar originally, but their income is based on selling other people's products. Embedding on n4g is essentially stealing that candy bar from the blog sites, or stealing directly from the factory in the case of HHG where he doesn't even get to sell it to the store.
on March 30, 2009 8:08 pm
I don't think Chad was talking about our site specifically because we don't do a lot of original video. When we do, though, I'd prefer we get the traffic we deserved from it.
on March 30, 2009 8:17 pm
I couldn't of put it better any way myself, great post
on March 30, 2009 8:19 pm
with pertinent content other than the one story submitted to N4G drives the sites hits. Embedding a video for a story is like a preview to the rest of the site. Many people just read headlines before they post without even reading the story!
I think you are getting a little to hot headed about a very small matter. Yes embedding could take away some hits, but so is not submitting news or just submitting a click here for more info.
You are focused to much on the negative and neither look for or acknowledge a positive light.
on March 30, 2009 8:29 pm
You could also use his post for Ripten as it only cares for the Bottom Line as well seeing that he is mad about having to embed a video that may or may not take away a couple of hits to the site.
on March 30, 2009 8:32 pm
is it any surprise really? as a gamer, i spent years pondering how cool it would be if gaming was bigger than any other form of entertainment. well, now that it is finally as big as i always hoped as a kid, i wonder how i couldve been so stupid. N4G used to be a damn good site, but it was only a matter of time before they decided that they deserved a bigger piece of the pie. forcing embedded vids is wrong, no way around this.
honestly, though, N4G is just a roadmap for trolls these days. used to be that the top stories were actual gaming news. these days, the most popular stories always seem to be irrelevant sony v msoft bs. real gaming news is passed over for the latest ps3 v 360 video comparison.
on a side note, this story seems to be picking up steam
on March 30, 2009 8:34 pm
Cookigaki does not understand what binkery just said. Cookigaki wishes to prevent further brain hurting by politely suggesting that binkery shut the fuck up.
on March 30, 2009 8:40 pm
Ah I see so rather than having a debate about your misconceptions you turn to insults. Well done on that. I'd give you a cookie but it'd probably spoil your dinner.
Seriously though. Your complaining about embedding videos on N4G because they just want hits when in reality you are saying I'm mad that my site could lose hits and effect my bottom line.
on March 30, 2009 8:48 pm
To be fair, if everyone focused on the positive, things would be boring. :D
on March 30, 2009 8:52 pm
Sorry Chad didn't see your edit.
No I don't think having to post the whole story is needed, but what I don't get is how having your videos embeddable in the first place gives you the reason to be upset and make this horror story of this.
If the story is good and the video is good people will want to know where it came from. Pretty much every N4G member knows it doesn't get original content so if they see this great info and videos from such and such site they'll go there. Although, some if not a lot of people do get turned off with 'Amazing announcement after the click' and that's all there is.
Also, sorry I keep replying to Tommy and not you Chad :(
on March 30, 2009 8:57 pm
heh well yeah that's true ;)
on March 30, 2009 9:06 pm
What would be the point in embedding the video on N4G when you don't want visitors to watch it on N4G, you want them to come to YOUR site to watch the video. I thought that was the whole point of N4G? To help drive traffic to your site. If this is not what the site is about, then I completely got the wrong impression.
It's all about traffic and Chad makes an excellent argument.
on March 30, 2009 10:21 pm
Bink,
This is not an issue with our videos. We rarely create original videos. This has to do with the principal of those who create the content being told they have to embed it.
People can argue that sites like RIpten, Kotaku, or Joystiq embed the video from other sites all the time and we do, but if we were ever contacted by the creator and asked to link to them instead I bet you any money that all of the sites mentioned would do so out of respect for the one who made it.
N4G does not do that. N4G believes they have the right to force content creators to embed the code. My problem with this is on multiple levels, but maily the issue I take is that it wasn't always like that.
There was a time where say 100 people submitted content to N4G and N4G went out and advertised their site as the place to go for news. During that time they had to be very nice to that 100 or so people submitting content. There was no video embed drama. You posted it and they were glad to have you submitting content to their empty shell site backed by advertising dollars and user submitted goodness.
Now, they have .. lets say thousands of users submitting content and parent site to answer to. So they care less about those submitting the content and more about their own readers and the parent company they answer to. What they forget is that the readers they have wouldn't exist without the sites who submitted content in the first place.
The bottom line is that what they are doing is not right and they know it. It is why their moderators rush to point the finger at ripten. It is why people that support us and what we are saying on their site get banned or have their comments deleted by moderators.
They are free to do all of that. N4G is a breeding ground for fanboys at its current state. Those that frequented it in the beginning know this. I know because I am in contact with many of them. There are many who are in denial as well, those that can't see further than their own nose. To them I say God bless.
on March 30, 2009 10:40 pm
It seems like those people that are all for N4G doing this have never actually owned, maintained, or worked with a website. The key in this is all about hits. Wanting hits for your site isn't greedy at all- It's the entire point of N4G. It's a content aggregator, not a news blog. By forcing their contributors to embed video, they've pretty much decreased the chance of users actually reading the follow up link. N4G already posts the pictures, they post the summy of the article- posting the video now takes pretty much everything away from the original blog where it was.
Think of it this way: If 100 people saw the N4G post, chances were that about 80 people read the follow-up link. That's good- 80 unique hits in a certain period of time is great for a single article, especially if it's on an unknown site. However, if N4G posts any video from the article as well, why would people even bother to click the link? They've already seen/read everything, there's nothing for them left. There are sites like ScrewAttack, Destructoid, and GameTrailers that have entire video series that help bring new users and new content to their site. If videos move from their sites to N4G's, then chances are that the 80 viewers will decrease to about 60, or 50. It's almost equally as bad that N4G tucks away the original site's URL in a small, sans-serif font where many people just passing through the site won't bother to notice it.
on March 30, 2009 11:29 pm
Bink,
N4G used to be a place where we could go to find some useful information but now everytime I go on it there is a pissed off fanboy posting pointless bullshit. And not to mention how whenever a pair of breasts are shown in one of the posts people decide to click on it and it gets over 1000 degrees. How can this qualify as gaming news, it's just a pair of fake breasts that was drawn by some person and people admire it. Once again Chad, Great Post
on March 30, 2009 4:50 pm
A solution for this would be limiting the video on aggregate sites to say 30 seconds or so. Perhaps there will be something in the embed code like this in the future, to where after the 30 seconds it could redirect the user to the original (or submitting) site to watch the rest of the vid.
Or make 2 vids, one a preview, the other a full vid to be embedding on the original (or submitting) site.
Funny that Ripten is the one complaining about this when they create no original video content, and try to force their news stories to n4g containing other sites’ videos.
It’s like you guys are upset that you aren’t getting the traffic so you complain about another issue to get said traffic.
I’m not saying the argument is wrong. It’s just that Ripten and its writers are well known for complaining about fanboys and then writing a piece for those very people.
Chad = Nostradavis on n4g = banned from Gamerzone?
and the Landis brothers are known Xbots…
Maybe you guys should start with the basics, like not being retards, and writing better, more unbiased content?
Sorry to flame, but I guess that’s the thing to do these days, right Ripten?
on March 31, 2009 2:58 am
N4G's been a cesspool of fanboy douchebaggery for a while now, mostly PS3 kids.
on March 31, 2009 3:36 am
This is a stupid article.
They get told to embed the video because it's just more convenient and no ones forcing them to do it.
The reason N4G is lame now is because of fanboys overruning it. Seems to be a toned down now, but it's still pretty bad.
on March 30, 2009 8:50 pm
Seriously Bink, if you see nothing wrong with forcing users to embed the video, do you then think that all users should embed the full article as well? Where is the line drawn?
on March 31, 2009 5:23 am
Haha! You guys are actually friends with HipHopGamer? That's corporate suicide man!
HHG is one of the worst most biased bloggers I have ever seen.
on March 31, 2009 7:08 pm
I am simply making a point based on observation. Thank you for your unbiased comment.
on March 31, 2009 7:25 pm
James,
You are more than entitled to your opinion but it is incorrect. That was not the case and it is not the case for many sites who have come to us voicing their experiences dealing with N4G. Many of those sites have decided to remove the embed feature on their video.
You are looking at it from the point of a reader, and that perspective is understood. However, you also have to consider the many contributors that helped to deliver content to the site that were not in the top ten each month and were not getting paid via a "contest" each month. Those contributors did what they did to build awareness of their site.
To then force (and it is forcing) those that want to continue to use the site to embed the video and images is a demonstration of the site's moderators complete disregard for the contributors that helped make the site what it is today.
You will see a select few contributors who get their palms greased by N4G, and they will of course defend the site as expected, but that doesn't account for the majority who speak up and have their accounts banned or chat bubbles deleted. The fanboy aspect effects the readers and the strong arm embed policy effects contributors.
To be clear, the corporate evolution that N4G is experiencing is not unique to them. Digg, eBay, and many other sites have done this as well. They start off with one reality that they use to suck in members and then kick into another phase when the dollars start rolling in. Ebay was free at its inception and only began to charge once they had a firm grasp on the majority of the online bidder/seller market. That is when posting, selling, and final sale fees went into effect.
If you didn't start your blog a few years ago, you would be very hard pressed to generate social networking traffic today via Digg or N4G. The sites are both at the point now where they don't need the small sites to contribute in order for them to prosper. It is unfortunate, but it goes to show that in a bottom line driven economy, the early bird gets the worm.
on March 31, 2009 1:22 pm
I can agree with one thing is that it very much is a breeding ground for fanboys -.- and indeed if shown a picture of a scantly clad women it'll be top news story and a bunch of people saying I'd tap that. No one really talkes games now the main page anymore just why they have a better system :(
on April 5, 2009 7:13 pm
Excellent post, Chad, and glad to see you catching up with me. ;) I fell out of whatever love there was with N4G a long time ago. Right around the time GR stepped in, I believe.
Seriously, it takes a lot to make something like 4chan seem civilized, and yet N4G manages to pull it off splendidly while feeding their own agenda.